# 16747 - Springfield Trapdoor
5/4/2024
james hanover township pa. usa

breechblock 1866 over eagle lockplate is 1864 i am almost sure that i have an original 1866 short rifle.and not a bannerman special. i have been looking for the specifications of the short rifles that were refurbished at the springfield armorynw

Answer:
James- That is an excellent question, but I am not sure anyone is 100% certain of what the right answer is.

I believe it may be discussed briefly in my friend Al Frasca`s superbly researched two volumes ``The .45- 70 Springfield.``?? The most recent source, and one I highly respect, is (another friend) Richard A. Hosmer`s ``The .58 and .50 Caliber Rifles and Carbines of the Springfield Armory 1865-1872.`` ? Hosmer has several pages on this model, but admits he is not sure of the right answer either.

My skeptical position is that it is best to ``assume Bannerman (et al) until proven otherwise.``

I do not expect that Al Frasca will be at Baltimore show again, but he would have been the person to ask. However, some other experts do attend, and you are close enough that if you go, you might find someone who has an opinion.?? But, like certain anatomical parts, everyone has an opinion.??

The problem is finding someone who might have some proof, beyond Hosmer`s documentary proof that such guns were mentioned in records, as to exactly what configuration they were made in.?? The difficulty is that they were sort of a non-standard cobbling together for secondary users at a time when armory funding was slim and recycling to cut costs was encouraged.?? And, that was pretty much the same approach that the surplus guys used, albeit perhaps at a different time, when they were attempting to turn assorted junk into a product they could sell at a profit.

Good luck. John Spangler

# 16745 - Wooden Bullets
5/1/2024
Rick Butte, MT

My dad was in WWII, at the end of the war he was placed on guard duty of German Solders. He would laught and tell me they gave me wooden shells to put in my rifle. He hardly ever talked about what he saw because formthe beach tothe end it was something he didn`t want to remember. But the story about the wooden shells always made him laught. At a garage sale a bought a box of DEN 43 30-06 rounds with wooden bullets and have fired one in my 06. Yet no one can tell me anything. Are they worth anything?

Answer:
There is a lot of confusion around ``wooden bullets`` and military use in WW2.

1. The Germans DID have cartridges with wooden bullets, but these were blanks for noise only used in training or ceremonies. The wood breaks up on firing into splinters that travel maybe 10-20 feet from the muzzle. They were NOT intended for combat use ``to make wounds where the bullet won`t show up on X- rays`` as some claim.

2- The U.S. military did not load ANY cartridges with wooden bullets during WW2. That statement is based on being a serious collector of U.S. military cartridges for 40 years, and careful study of detailed records of the experimental work on military .30-06 cartridges.

3- Any U.S. military cases found with wooden bullets were loaded that way by someone else using military cases. Some might have been (without powder or primer) for use as drill cartridges or display or something. Someone may have loaded some with wooden bullets hollowed out to hold shot for use as a snake or bird cartridge, but I have never seen or heard of an example.

So, I think your Dad may have remembered bits and pieces of the German wooden bullet story and over time it got confused with other events. I am not sure what the DEN 43 cartridges are that you found, but they were not loaded that way for U.S. military use.

Hope that helps.

John Spangler

# 16751 - Winchester 670
5/1/2024
Ken Ridgefield WA USA

Nothing special. Winchester SN has a G prefix and wont process the number. On the lists available on line and still using the Model 70 list it calls the GXXXXXXX somewhere around 1992.Without the G it is listed as a 1952 Mdl 70.Im confused. The serial number some post-64 with the same action and blank magazine

Answer:
Ken, the Winchester Model 670 is an economy version of the popular model 70 that came with a hardwood pistol grip stock, 22 inch barrel, open sights and a non-hinged floorplate. Although it is a decent rifle for shooting and hunting purposes, the Model 670 never caught on with collectors like the Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters did. The 670 was first cataloged for sale in 1967 and remained in production until 1973. Total manufacture is estimated to be under 300,000 total rifles. Information pertaining to the production runs for the 670 is at best speculative, as Winchester either did not maintain a serial number data base, or what data was retained has been lost or destroyed. Because of this, there is no way to know precisely when your rifle was produced.